more on Ping's conversation
I pointed to Ping's page last week, without time to comment. There have been some great comments and criticisms, both on my page, and more at Ping's. I've responded to some of these in the extended entry below. But read the discussion linked above. It is much richer than what follows.
First, let's be clear about objectives. When Eric Eldred pressed some of us to look at this problem, we decided any solution must satisfy three conditions:
(1) It must simplify: Copyright law is an insanely expensive system for 95% of creative work. Yet the way the law is written and increasingly applied now, the same insanely expensive system applies to all. So our first and most important objective was to lower the cost of the law -- to make it easier for people to signal their preferences effectively, and without the need to hire a lawyer.
(2) It must be machine-readable: But in making it simpler for people to express their preferences, we wanted to make sure we wouldn't be making it harder for the system to process those preferences. Put differently: text sucks, and legal text sucks more. What the world didn't need was the equivalent of a privacy policy pages attached to every bit of content. Instead, we believe that licenses are positively evil if they are not machine readable.
(3) It must be reliable: Finally, we want to build a system that others can reply upon. Who's the others? Commercial as well as non-commercial sorts. So obviously, (but remember, it used to be obvious that the RIAA wouldn't sue 12 year olds), there's little reason to worry about someone suing you for using an image from their website. But if we want a world where others can build upon what we build easily and reliably -- and in ways no one can imagine today -- then bullet proof licenses lowers legal uncertainty.
In a single line: CC aims to support a convention to make it simple to mark content with freedoms that people and machines can understand, and the law must respect.
So, against that background, some responses to the comments on my blog inspired by Ping's post.
(lower case) nate makes a great point about meaning: What is the meaning of using a device such as ours? Is it really an advance to turn a housesitting relationship into a legal relationship.
No, it isn't. And come take my contracts class, nate, as much of it is about where we ought to be limiting the reach of "legal-like" rules, and preserving norm-based rules instead.
But you make an important assumption that I believe is false when you write: "The small private user is looking for much more lightweight solution, more akin to adding a line “Copyright 2004, permission required for commercial use”." The assumption that "lightweight solution[s]" will be recognized as "solutions." Until copyright law is changed, there's no good reason to believe that. Hence, such "solutions" would fail condition (3). They would also fail condition (2) -- not machine readable. Again: "Instead of concentrating on bulletproof contracts, work on reducing people’s fear that they will be sued." You assume you can do the latter without the former. We looked at it. I don't think it can be done under the law as it is.
Ping suggests a couple modifications. One (which I agree with but was voted down (for good reasons) by the rest of CC) is various time-stamp options on CC licenses: e.g., this license good until X. Or after this date, restriction X is lifted. Or after this date, the work enters the public domain.
As I agree with the time-stamp idea, I am hopeful we can roll that into the scheme sometime. (I in particular find it odd to license stuff perpetually rather than for "limited times.") But I agree with this idea because I think it can be done in a machine-readable way. (And note: The Founders' Copyright (inspired by Tim O'Reilly) does allow you a crude way to put stuff into the public domain after a (truly) limited time.)
But those changes are very different from the "arbitrary condition" requirement, or a "fill in the blank" field. Both would fail requirement (2) -- machine-readability. If to understand the license you need to go back and read text, then the objectives of (2) are lost.
That, at base, is my strongest disagreement with Noise. As a lawyer, I of course love the idea of people crafting licenses. And as a law professor, I love the idea of people trying to learn more about how the law works. But again, I think the law of copyright is too complicated and hence, a waste of cycles. And even if an amateur could draft an effective and valid license (and I count myself as an amateur in this respect -- we drew upon the talent of excellent licensing lawyers at excellent law firms), the problem with the world that Noise would create is, in a word, noise. Noise's world fails condition (3): If every time I went to a page, I had to wade through a license to understand what I could do with the content on the page, that would not be a "solution" to the burden the law of copyright imposes.
In the end, I hope Thien is right. We are trying to fit the model to the demands of creators. We've versioned, and we're adding new choices -- but all subject to the three requirements of (1) simple, (2) machine readable, and (3) reliable. If we do that, and at the same time, internationalize the project sufficiently, then there will be an easy way for creators to signal the freedoms they intend to run with their work.
That won't be enough for everyone, no doubt. But "everyone" is not the objective. Those who reject the control-freak world of "all rights reserved" but have better things to do than become an amateur lawyer -- those people are the objective.
And finally, re Oyez: I know many have complained about Oyez's CC license. I view this along the lines I described here. In fact, there are many who believe that the act of digitizing can produce a sufficiently original work to create a separately copyright-able interest. Oyez removes the questions about that by releasing their work under a CC license. I would prefer the work were licensed under a simple attribution license. But the good that comes from removing an uncertainty seems to me to be worth the commercial use restriction.
Thanks again to Ping and Noise for launching this discussion.
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Comments (2)
I never fully appreciated the machine-readability until this post of yours... I could see whole application flows obeying CC licenses (like embedded in PDFs!).... that's a good thing. (the absence of machine-readability being "evil", I'm not so sure about... not as cool or revolutionary, for sure!) I'm thinking about coding a LaTeX package that will include CC-licensing information... if anyone already has this written, let me know so I don't dup. the wheel.
> The assumption that "lightweight solution[s]" will be recognized
> as "solutions." Until copyright law is changed, there's no good
> reason to believe that.
Well, my assumption is actually only that such a solution would be
preferable. While I would like such a solution to exist, I realize
that it might not. And perhaps only enforcement of copyright law
would have to change, not copyright law itself. Adding the
copyright equivalent of a good Samaritan law might be one path,
dramatically reducing one's liability if a court finds that one had
reason to believe one was acting within the intentions of the
copyright owner.
> Hence, such "solutions" would fail condition (3) [be reliable].
Yes, that is the weak point of "lightweight solutions". On the other
hand, it remains to be seen whether CC licenses will meet this
criterion either. One hopes they will, but I wouldn't yet feel safe
basing, say, a major commercial branding effort on CC legal
artworks until I'd done a good deal of outside research as to
whether the putative owner of the copyright has both the right and
intention of granting a CC license for the work in question. And like
the "lightweight solution", I think the amount of research required
will always be commensurate with the scale of the use of the
licensed work.
On that topic, what is one's recourse when an untraceable source
publishes one's copyrighted work (on the internet or elsewhere) with
a CC license attached? What is one's liability for using such a work
in good faith? How is this different than a "lightweight solution"?
> They would also fail condition (2) -- not machine readable.
This requirement hasn't made sense to me in the past. The main
use of it that I can see is to allow technology to enforce legal
standards: if the document says no derivative works, the
DRM-compliant editor won't let you edit it. I presume this isn't your
primary goal (unless as part of making CC licenses more politically
appealing). I can happily accept the utility of standardization, but I
don't understand which machine is going to be reading this license
when. Could you point me to somewhere where this is better
explained?
> Again: "Instead of concentrating on bulletproof contracts, work
> on reducing people's fear that they will be sued." You assume you
> can do the latter without the former. We looked at it. I don't think it
> can be done under the law as it is.
As a software developer, more of my IP vitriol goes towards software
patents than toward copyright law. A common sentiment among
small-scale developers, which I share, is that there is simply no
legal way to develop ANY non-trivial software application without
exposing oneself to legal liability for patent infringment.
And yet software is developed, even though a similar analysis
(similar to CC's analysis of what is possible under current copyright
law) might conclude there is no way that it can be done under the
current law. I'd guess the analysis is missing some essential
combination of bravado, selective enforcement, societal norms, and legal friction.
[Slight off topic, and despite my distaste for a legal arms race, I
was recently thinking of the potential for creating a public domain
patent thicket. Set up a non-profit repository for defensive patents,
convince some number of companies with purely defensive patents
to donate them in some tax deductible manner, and relicense them
under something akin to a GPL: you may use this patent if we can
use yours. Without lots of expensive legal teeth nothing would be
enforceable, but a small company might be able to benefit from the
breadth of the portfolio as a deterrent against nuisance
infringement suits.]
> And come take my contracts class, nate, as much of it is about
> where we ought to be limiting the reach of "legal-like" rules, and
> preserving norm-based rules instead.
I'd like to, and certainly could benefit from some more structured
thinking about these topics. But the commute might get annoying :).
--nate (lower case because this blog also has an upper case Nate commenter)